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but like other early giants at the anc, zulus and mutombos, madiba disciplined his anger and channeled his desire to fight in the organization and platforms and strategies for action. so men and women could stand up for their god-given dignity. moreover, he accepted the consequences of his actions, knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i have fought against white domination. i have fought against black domination. i have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if need be, it is an ideal for which i am prepared to die. mandela taught us the power of action but he also taught us the power of ideas, the importance of reason and arguments, the need to study not only those who you agree with but also those who you don't agree with. he understood that ideas cannot be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. he turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid, because of his eloquence and
but like other early giants at the anc, zulus and mutombos, madiba disciplined his anger and channeled his desire to fight in the organization and platforms and strategies for action. so men and women could stand up for their god-given dignity. moreover, he accepted the consequences of his actions, knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i have fought against white domination. i have fought against black domination. i have cherished the ideal of a...
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the anc was a terrorist organization at one point. he has since said great things about nelson mandela. i like that what's been said about nelson mandela is said in the same way the pope said what he did. forgiveness and redemption. the pope's widely misinterpreted. and mischaracterized statements. it's active engagement. taking care of each other with solidarity and subsidiary. >> when you say about accusing darth vader, so to speak. this is not just about rhetoric. this is the policy that prevented the anc -- when they had the feet on the neck of nelson mandela -- >> he said, let's forgive. let's forgive dick cheney. let's forgive these people. i think one of the fascinating things about nelson mandela, he wasn't a saint. he made a lot of mistakes. he readily admitted it. he said, i'm not a saint unless you think a saint is a sinner who gets up and tries again every time. he changed an entire country and a world in what he said. done through acts of humility. like the pope has done. authentic acts of humility. >> i think -- one of t
the anc was a terrorist organization at one point. he has since said great things about nelson mandela. i like that what's been said about nelson mandela is said in the same way the pope said what he did. forgiveness and redemption. the pope's widely misinterpreted. and mischaracterized statements. it's active engagement. taking care of each other with solidarity and subsidiary. >> when you say about accusing darth vader, so to speak. this is not just about rhetoric. this is the policy...
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some of the black opponents of anc fought on. one of the first stories i covered was in the anc township where it's zulu warriors from a hostile that marched in the dead of night and slaughtered 40 people women and children among them. so, you know, it was not a simple matter of de klerk deciding to negotiate and everything got easy. you know, white bitter enders assassinated the head of the communist party, one of the most promising young black leaders around that time. a bunch of kind of resistance types tried to storm one of the african so-called homelands. so there were people who tried to keep the fight going. but the balance just had had shift sod dramatically that, you know, de klerk was a realist. and they desperately needed a realist on the other side of the table. >> mr. delms, when i was talking about nelson mandela right before he was officially elected, he gave a lot of credit to the united states. i thought he was being very generous in saying our country was the most -- enemy of the world. do you think united state
some of the black opponents of anc fought on. one of the first stories i covered was in the anc township where it's zulu warriors from a hostile that marched in the dead of night and slaughtered 40 people women and children among them. so, you know, it was not a simple matter of de klerk deciding to negotiate and everything got easy. you know, white bitter enders assassinated the head of the communist party, one of the most promising young black leaders around that time. a bunch of kind of...
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in fact, lots of people called at that time the anc terrorists and when he came out of prison, when he said i say to you all, take your guns, your knives, your pangers and throw them into the sea, fully declaring in his first -- practically his first public address after 28 years of being in the wilderness in prison, no, this has to be peaceful. this was huge and then you know, you heard president zuma say this is the father, the founding father of our democratic south africa, and you heard robyn talk about the tribal homeland where he lived and the rural area where he's going to be finally laid to rest, and i think i will never forget the pictures not just of the snaking lines of hundreds of thousands of millions of people in the towns and the cities who cast their ballots for nelson mandela in 1994, but the helicopter shots of the countryside, when people were literally lining up in zigzag lines so quietly, so peacefully, so joyfully, just to have the privilege of casting their first ever vote in 1994, this majority black country, they had never had that right before and they stepped
in fact, lots of people called at that time the anc terrorists and when he came out of prison, when he said i say to you all, take your guns, your knives, your pangers and throw them into the sea, fully declaring in his first -- practically his first public address after 28 years of being in the wilderness in prison, no, this has to be peaceful. this was huge and then you know, you heard president zuma say this is the father, the founding father of our democratic south africa, and you heard...
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on defenseless people. >> mandela was one of those people he founded the armed wing of anc. considered a revolutionary he was put on trial for sabotage and conspiracy, his defense was a defiant four and a half hour speech that ended this way. >> i have fought against and i have fought against. >> the ideal of democratic and free society he went on. >> for which i am prepared to die. >> he expect to be hanged instead he was sentenced to life in prison. but even locked up nelson mandela was considered a terrorist by the south african government. you could be jailed for wearing a t-shirt like this one or carrying a sign. >> we demand the unconditional release of nelson mandela! >> international pressure to end apartheid and free nelson mandela was incensed. the star studded rock concert held in london in honor of his 70th birthday was seen on television by hundreds of millions of people in more than 60 countries. but not in south africa. subjected to stiff economic sanctions regarded as a pariah nation. south africa finally got the nation. >> i am now in a position to announce
on defenseless people. >> mandela was one of those people he founded the armed wing of anc. considered a revolutionary he was put on trial for sabotage and conspiracy, his defense was a defiant four and a half hour speech that ended this way. >> i have fought against and i have fought against. >> the ideal of democratic and free society he went on. >> for which i am prepared to die. >> he expect to be hanged instead he was sentenced to life in prison. but even...
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because mandela negotiated with the apartheid government while in prison and he didn't even tell his anc colleagues that he was doing that. they negotiated for years in private in order to get this done. the persistence, the courage to do that was incredible. >> incredible courage and many occasions, he went against the leadership of the anc, the political movement. and didn't tell them or when he did tell them, he would essentially say i know this is not what you want me to do, but i feel it is the thing we must do and almost all instances, he was proven correct and he was somebody -- >> go ahead, had the respect of them so that they trusted him even though they had great reservations about the other side. >> they had great reservations. they argued with him. but never the less, he was so deserving of trust that even when they disagreed with him, they knew he was the leader and not the leader in a sense of i'm in charge, but in a sense of i am the purpose, the vision, the one who's going to get us there, so trust me. come along with me. walk with me and that was his great strength. >> t
because mandela negotiated with the apartheid government while in prison and he didn't even tell his anc colleagues that he was doing that. they negotiated for years in private in order to get this done. the persistence, the courage to do that was incredible. >> incredible courage and many occasions, he went against the leadership of the anc, the political movement. and didn't tell them or when he did tell them, he would essentially say i know this is not what you want me to do, but i...
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the ban on anc was lifted. and on february 11th, 1990, nelson mandela walked to freedom. >> nelson mandela, free at last and back among his people. >> i thank you all. >> reporter: 27 years in prison had not weakened mandela's resolve. >> i'm going to go on as long as the government has not responded to us. >> reporter: but he also urged restraint, even forgiveness telling blacks to, quote, throw their guns into the sea and reassuring anxious whites. >> whites are fellow south africans and we want them to feel safe. >> reporter: mandela's courage and sacrifice was recognized around the world. in america he was welcomed as a hero. mandela and declerk were awarded the nobel peace prize in 1993. the following year in the first mixed race election in south africa's history, nelson mandela was elected president. >> today is a day like no other before it. >> reporter: we were the first to interview him on that first morning as president elect. mandela tempered south africa's joy when he said healing his country would
the ban on anc was lifted. and on february 11th, 1990, nelson mandela walked to freedom. >> nelson mandela, free at last and back among his people. >> i thank you all. >> reporter: 27 years in prison had not weakened mandela's resolve. >> i'm going to go on as long as the government has not responded to us. >> reporter: but he also urged restraint, even forgiveness telling blacks to, quote, throw their guns into the sea and reassuring anxious whites. >>...
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and those decisions he made, those difficult decisions he made after sharpeville, when the anc had been a peaceful protest out of, you know, what the other leaders had said. it was a fepeaceful -- he made that decision to move to violence and to do that. then when he comes out of prison, the complete opposite of that. when everybody was thinking the country was on the tipping point of a blood bath, mandela paved the way for peace and forgiveness. >> right. do you feel like as an actor playing a role like that, that you achieved some emotional insight into the kind of dexterity that allowed mandela to move through these tremendously different phases, from enemy of the state to head of state? >> i mean, yes. i mean, obviously, you know, there's a certain amount of license that's given to the writer that actually has to do a lot of the construction of the sort of, the emotional journey that the audience go along on, and i certainly bring along that, help that journey along, but the truth is about this story, it's his true story, you know? our job was really editors, to figure out what part
and those decisions he made, those difficult decisions he made after sharpeville, when the anc had been a peaceful protest out of, you know, what the other leaders had said. it was a fepeaceful -- he made that decision to move to violence and to do that. then when he comes out of prison, the complete opposite of that. when everybody was thinking the country was on the tipping point of a blood bath, mandela paved the way for peace and forgiveness. >> right. do you feel like as an actor...
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remember, the anc was a radical revolutionary organization. it drew a lot of support from communist countries, from revolutionary movements, castro, gadhafi, arafat. everyone thought he was going to be a left wing maniac. he was very pro business. he was very pro markets because he understood the future of south africa depended on the white business class staying there, being productive. interestingly, 27 years in prison he came out of an old left wing background. he didn't bust the budget spending money on blacks. because of that corporations trusted him. they understood that he didn't want to nationalize anything. he's asking us to behave ethically. i think it's a very good model for the future for third world leaders, particularly to look at. you can, you know, as long as you understand the power of the market, you can also understand that you can ask businesspeople to behave honorably. >> your prime time special "global lessons on guns" tomorrow night 7:00 p.m. right here on cnn. thank you. >>> coming up, elton john, shania twain, celine d
remember, the anc was a radical revolutionary organization. it drew a lot of support from communist countries, from revolutionary movements, castro, gadhafi, arafat. everyone thought he was going to be a left wing maniac. he was very pro business. he was very pro markets because he understood the future of south africa depended on the white business class staying there, being productive. interestingly, 27 years in prison he came out of an old left wing background. he didn't bust the budget...
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but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if an ideal for which i'm prepared to die. [ cheers ] mandela taught us the power of action but also taught us the power of ideas. the importance of reason and arguments. the importance of to only study not only who you agree with but those who you don't degree with. he under stood ideas can't be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. he turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid because of his eloquence and passion but because of his training as an advocate. he used deca
but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together...
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that's true in the anc of many leader. they made a sacrifice for the cause, and it took an economic toll on their families. >> we're seeing the outpouring in these days since mandela's death, but how distant a figure had he become in the country? >> not distant at all. i think nelson mandela was still the moral center. and many with their disappointment about the leadership of the anc and its more material orientation would refer back to nelson mandela. 2005, 2007, 2011, his presence was still important within the anc. you'll recall in 2013 the anc leadership took pictures with him to try to shore up their own presence. his activism in the party diminished even just over two years or so. >> we're going to be hearing from president obama later this morning. we'll also hear from several members of the mandela family. that is andrew melengheni, a president with nelson mandela in robben island. appears to be wrapping up again. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. we're here to mourn him in dignity. right now we woul
that's true in the anc of many leader. they made a sacrifice for the cause, and it took an economic toll on their families. >> we're seeing the outpouring in these days since mandela's death, but how distant a figure had he become in the country? >> not distant at all. i think nelson mandela was still the moral center. and many with their disappointment about the leadership of the anc and its more material orientation would refer back to nelson mandela. 2005, 2007, 2011, his...
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. >> yes, it was actually the night of the -- when they won, when the anc won, my mom went to a party in south africa, and he pulled her up on the stage, and you can see them dancing. great picture. >> very nice. martin luther king iii, thank you so much. appreciate your reflection. safe journey as you contemplate your journey to say your final good-byes to nelson mandela. >>> we'll talk about the latest job numbers. very encouraging in many circles. good news say some with more people going back to work, but is it the temporary fix, or are we seeing the end of a great recession? i'll ask former labor secretary robert reich. he joins us next in the "newsroom." thanks for giving me your smile. thanks for inspiring me. thanks for showing me my potential. for teaching me not to take life so seriously. thanks for loving me and being my best friend. don't forget to thank those who helped you take charge of your future and got you where you are today. the boss of your life. the chief life officer. ♪ are still high in acidic content. if your enamel is exposed to acid and you brush it away,
. >> yes, it was actually the night of the -- when they won, when the anc won, my mom went to a party in south africa, and he pulled her up on the stage, and you can see them dancing. great picture. >> very nice. martin luther king iii, thank you so much. appreciate your reflection. safe journey as you contemplate your journey to say your final good-byes to nelson mandela. >>> we'll talk about the latest job numbers. very encouraging in many circles. good news say some with...
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so they are kind of right now stopped with the anc? >> not stuck, but they just keep returning the same political. >> been in power for a long time, 20 years now. it is familiar? >> right but i think it's to do with the strength 69 anc lies in exactly almost it's shapelessness, sort of amorefus because it's a political party that offers nearly everybody what they want, left-wing, a little bit of right-wing and a little bit of the center. so, i think because of that spentb special mic of the national african con congress, they still find something in it that appeals to them. >> especially since it has accomplished great features? >> exactly. >> can't lose site of that? >> other political parties don't have as much of that historical mission, historical achievement? >> we will see what develops there. in the meantime, everyone is remembering their most pivotal leaders, nelson mandel a? >> i think that moment will last for a bit, that moment of rememberance and commemoration and, also, the value orizatiori 6r7b8ing9s thank you for being i
so they are kind of right now stopped with the anc? >> not stuck, but they just keep returning the same political. >> been in power for a long time, 20 years now. it is familiar? >> right but i think it's to do with the strength 69 anc lies in exactly almost it's shapelessness, sort of amorefus because it's a political party that offers nearly everybody what they want, left-wing, a little bit of right-wing and a little bit of the center. so, i think because of that spentb...
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but remember when he came out, he was a loyal member of the anc as he said. part of his virtue as a politician was that he changed and bended. the anc said, national of the minds, he believed that, he changed his mind. but what he always believed and never forgot and it's a little bit unpopular to say he believed politics was way of changing people's lives for the better. and he was proud to call himself a politics that is what he did. >> as politics you also understood dramatic flourish. there were moments, we saw that in 1990 when he did that eight-city tour. i think when he went to detroit he quoted marvin gay. in front of that audience, it was brilliant. mother, mother, too many of -- brother, brother, too many of you are dying, mother, mother, too many are crying. he understood the moment. >> schieffer: what did he say in new york? >> can i just tell a story. when we were doing christmas kindness in south africa go to remote villages. thousands of kids would be waiting for their soccer balls and jersey. a local politician went on for an hour about politi
but remember when he came out, he was a loyal member of the anc as he said. part of his virtue as a politician was that he changed and bended. the anc said, national of the minds, he believed that, he changed his mind. but what he always believed and never forgot and it's a little bit unpopular to say he believed politics was way of changing people's lives for the better. and he was proud to call himself a politics that is what he did. >> as politics you also understood dramatic flourish....
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. >> consider the issue ans of ance for. >> great thank you let's begin by asking the applicant to come forward. i don't know if it's justin beem and daniel brooker for resolute drinks or daniel book er that are coming in but if you could just come up to the podium and briefly introduce yourself and if you can mention in your presentation the kind of outreach you have done to the community and to the district supervisor. >> good morning this is marcia garland and i'm here with dan book er and justin about beam 678 geary will replace a vacancy one that's been vacant for a year and one for 3 years. they began their out research and contracted first off for fifty apartments. they then sent 700 letters to people in the immediate area and followed that up later formally to 38 hundred residents within a 500 foot radius and canvassed the immediate business community several blocks wide and got 22 letters of support. they presented to the alliance to glide memorial church and to the community leadership alliance and got support from everybody and in addition they have subsequent engagements and
. >> consider the issue ans of ance for. >> great thank you let's begin by asking the applicant to come forward. i don't know if it's justin beem and daniel brooker for resolute drinks or daniel book er that are coming in but if you could just come up to the podium and briefly introduce yourself and if you can mention in your presentation the kind of outreach you have done to the community and to the district supervisor. >> good morning this is marcia garland and i'm here with...
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. >> the anc was out lawed and in 1964, mandela was sentenced to life in prison, attempting to over throw the government. imprisoned on robbins island, he became a powerful symbol of resistance. he was released from prison in 1990 and emerged as the face of the antiapart i'd movement. he appeared before a standing room crowd at the oakland colosseum. >> it is you, the people of oakland, the people of the bay area, who have given me and my delegation strength and hope to grow. >> mandela stepped into negotiations with fk declerk to bring multieration-ratial democracy. he was the first black president. >> so help me god. never, and never again, shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one or another. >>> thousands of people have responded on our facebook page on the passing of mandela. you can join a conversation by going to ktvu chan 2 on facebook. >>> bart apologized for yesterday's emergency that stranded 700 people in a smokey disabled train. the train came to a stop? the berkeley tunnel after a short circuit caused the brakes to engage. the train ope
. >> the anc was out lawed and in 1964, mandela was sentenced to life in prison, attempting to over throw the government. imprisoned on robbins island, he became a powerful symbol of resistance. he was released from prison in 1990 and emerged as the face of the antiapart i'd movement. he appeared before a standing room crowd at the oakland colosseum. >> it is you, the people of oakland, the people of the bay area, who have given me and my delegation strength and hope to grow....
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of the anc decided we need to become a military organization. and he started spear of the nation which was the military wing of the anc. and he taught himself. he read generals. he read caesar. he learned that like he learned everything. and it went against his grain, but again, as i was saying before, he had one overarching goal. and whatever got to that goal, he would do. even embracing violence. as you showed earlier, he refused to not embrace violence to get out of prison. because he said i can't negotiate while i'm in prison. that was the leverage he had. and he understood that. >> when you're in south africa as you know better than most, you don't hear mandela as much as you hear madiba. and as i was saying to charlayne, it's parental, it's paternal, this relationship even with the born free generation. it's hard to describe. >> yes. it's one of the things i've always thought that people don't quite understand about him. and one of the paradoxes is he's a revolutionary. he was a socialist, but he also embraced that historical tradition of
of the anc decided we need to become a military organization. and he started spear of the nation which was the military wing of the anc. and he taught himself. he read generals. he read caesar. he learned that like he learned everything. and it went against his grain, but again, as i was saying before, he had one overarching goal. and whatever got to that goal, he would do. even embracing violence. as you showed earlier, he refused to not embrace violence to get out of prison. because he said i...
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do you think this is the end of the anc of nelson mandela's party? >> it is not end but it is a moment of reconsideration i think for anc. they have to straz very wisely but they also have to put forward a much stronger set of policies if they want people to support them in the same way. >> brieflily you says nothing in because -- >> because a lot of south africans are going to support the anc. >> with nelson mandela on the top of everyone's mind. >> and the other parties are not offering people all that much alternatives. >> they are stuck with the anc? >> not stuck. but they keep returning the same political -- >> it has been in power a long:00, it is familiar. >> right but it has to do with the fact that the strength of the anc relies on its shapelessness amorphous -- it is a political party that offers people a bit of what they want, a little bit of left wing politics, a little bit of right wing and a little bit of the center and because of that special mix of the african national congress even when people are disgruntled with the party they stil
do you think this is the end of the anc of nelson mandela's party? >> it is not end but it is a moment of reconsideration i think for anc. they have to straz very wisely but they also have to put forward a much stronger set of policies if they want people to support them in the same way. >> brieflily you says nothing in because -- >> because a lot of south africans are going to support the anc. >> with nelson mandela on the top of everyone's mind. >> and the other...
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is from nigeria or tanzania or closer to home, mozambique, across africa people rallied behind the anc in that struggle. i think president mandela stood for freedom, and he now stands for integrity and perseverance. the continent needs to move towards that in terms of the next phase of the struggle, which is political freedom has been achieved now. economic freedom is necessary. >> speak a little about your own experience in relation to the perspective of nelson mandela, particularly when it comes to nonviolent protest, and in violence in africa, as well is the work you have done combating aids in africa. >> i really respect president mandela, again, because of his conviction. he was a person who started as he did, in terms of nonviolent struggle against apartheid regime, and at some point he realized the level of repression of the national party required a more robust response, which was moving towards arms struggle. leader likefound a erk who could negotiate with the national party that was now ready after the mass demonstration movement in south africa, which was ready to negotiate,
is from nigeria or tanzania or closer to home, mozambique, across africa people rallied behind the anc in that struggle. i think president mandela stood for freedom, and he now stands for integrity and perseverance. the continent needs to move towards that in terms of the next phase of the struggle, which is political freedom has been achieved now. economic freedom is necessary. >> speak a little about your own experience in relation to the perspective of nelson mandela, particularly when...
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he legalized the anc. and in february of 1990 he visited then 71 year old nelson mandela, still imprisoned 2 y7 r years later. and on february 11, 1990, nelson mandela emerged. >> i now announce to you the great mandela who has been in prison for 27 years. >> nelson mandela speaks after 27 years. >> fellow south africans, i greet you all in the name of peace. democracy and freedom for all. i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant of you, the people. >> after 27 years in prison when nel some mandela was released he led the negotiations for the anc for the end of apartheid and apartheid was dismantled. and on the 27th of april, 1994 he was elected the new president of south africa in the first election ever held in that country where all adult citizens were welcome to vote regardless of race. millions of people waited in line to vote, in voting that took three days. and april 27 is now a national holiday in south africa. it's called freedom day. and when it came time to sign the new
he legalized the anc. and in february of 1990 he visited then 71 year old nelson mandela, still imprisoned 2 y7 r years later. and on february 11, 1990, nelson mandela emerged. >> i now announce to you the great mandela who has been in prison for 27 years. >> nelson mandela speaks after 27 years. >> fellow south africans, i greet you all in the name of peace. democracy and freedom for all. i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant of you, the people....
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he had joined the african national congress, the anc, way back in 1944. the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid in south africa had been organized as nonviolent movements, nonviolent resistance, and nonviolent organizing. but after sharpville, they decided that maybe that wasn't enough. after sharpville, they decided they would form a paramilitary wing, and nelson mandela was one of the anc leader who is went underground to help start it. they said they would target government buildings and strategic infrastructure and they would try to sabotage the state. after sharpville, the government of south africa started mass arrests of anc leaders and other activists. they banned the anc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandela was arrested for treason in 1961, he was acquitted and he was convicted of traveling illegally. they sentenced him to five years hard labor on south africa's version of alcatraz, which is robin island. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison, they put him on
he had joined the african national congress, the anc, way back in 1944. the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid in south africa had been organized as nonviolent movements, nonviolent resistance, and nonviolent organizing. but after sharpville, they decided that maybe that wasn't enough. after sharpville, they decided they would form a paramilitary wing, and nelson mandela was one of the anc leader who is went underground to help start it. they said they would target...
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i mean, my god, the denunciations of the anc at the time. it was as though these people were, you know, were like, you know, the cultural revolution in china. it was just this sort of unthinkable thing that was sweeping down on an allied government. and then you look at them now. it's fine. it worked out just fine. >> right. and the remarkable thing is that reconciliation that happens, and the forging of this kind of multiracial national identity that mandela is now being praised for, that only came after this epic struggle. maxine waters who was an absolute vanguard in that fight and thomas frank from harper's, thank you so much. >> you're so welcome. >>> when we come back, another installment of our bizarro congress series. stick around for that. is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.? the answer is... the u.s. ♪ most of america's energy comes from right here at home. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup
i mean, my god, the denunciations of the anc at the time. it was as though these people were, you know, were like, you know, the cultural revolution in china. it was just this sort of unthinkable thing that was sweeping down on an allied government. and then you look at them now. it's fine. it worked out just fine. >> right. and the remarkable thing is that reconciliation that happens, and the forging of this kind of multiracial national identity that mandela is now being praised for,...
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there's still an emotional attachment to the anc. but a lot of people here and within the anc are starting to question where this party will take them in the next 20 years. and i think it's going to be a very difficult road, not only for the party but for this country, as it navigates i suppose the post-mandela era. and i think there are, depending who you speak to, there are challenges. there are complexities. and south africans are very much aware of that. >> sort of the young firebrand leader who's broken away from the anc, created his own party. >> he's caused a huge amount of trouble, julius melema. they've kicked him out of the party of that wing. even president obama when he went to south africa just a few months ago talked about the great transformation in all sorts of ways. there are many many ways, south africa for awhile was the engine of africa for a long time after mandela and democracy came. but it's slowing down obviously the growth, and there is massive corruption as robyn said. and the president pointed that out. thi
there's still an emotional attachment to the anc. but a lot of people here and within the anc are starting to question where this party will take them in the next 20 years. and i think it's going to be a very difficult road, not only for the party but for this country, as it navigates i suppose the post-mandela era. and i think there are, depending who you speak to, there are challenges. there are complexities. and south africans are very much aware of that. >> sort of the young firebrand...
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there was a feeling that the anc was communist? >> i think so. there were many politicians in the united states and globally in western countries who felt that the anc was in fact an off shoot of the south african communist party. that it was affiliated with the larger com communist movement globally. i think they misunderstood history and they misunderstood the desire of black people across africa and southern after africa at the time to seek justice and equality for themselves on the same level. regrettably mr. will was wrong and as were a number of leading american politicians on the right who solved the anc as a communist organization. i would note just historically and it's very important fact that the anc which was established in 1905 predates by a decade and a half the establishment of the russian communist party. the struggle for equality based on the content of a person's character and not the color of his skin was the main driver for nelson mandela as it was for civil rights leader here in the united states. there is a join and conjunct
there was a feeling that the anc was communist? >> i think so. there were many politicians in the united states and globally in western countries who felt that the anc was in fact an off shoot of the south african communist party. that it was affiliated with the larger com communist movement globally. i think they misunderstood history and they misunderstood the desire of black people across africa and southern after africa at the time to seek justice and equality for themselves on the...
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in other words the 80% of the population that is black has voted overwhelmingly for the anc. the opposition party has been predominately white. so unless or until south africa breaks out of that particular mold, it is difficult to bring about rapid change. so is it too much to ask, the people in townships, is it too much to ask of the government, 20 years of afc rule, to have brought about the dramatic changes that have improved the lives of the people in the townships? >> two issues here. twenty-first is the overall rate of economic growth has been disappointing. it's a little over 3% a year, that's substantially less. than say in china. the second is the educational system has failed the population. for reasons can are obscure. not very similar. about a quarter of the country's budget is on education. that being the case, why isn't the delivery very much better. >> that's a question we ask here in the united states. >> we do. >> so -- no one wants to be thought of as being pessimistic, or apisms so what degree of optimism do you have for the future of south africa. >> oh, p
in other words the 80% of the population that is black has voted overwhelmingly for the anc. the opposition party has been predominately white. so unless or until south africa breaks out of that particular mold, it is difficult to bring about rapid change. so is it too much to ask, the people in townships, is it too much to ask of the government, 20 years of afc rule, to have brought about the dramatic changes that have improved the lives of the people in the townships? >> two issues...
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what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. there's still more than 60% of the vote is what they get. they're being challenged from both left and right. that's going to be very interesting once we've gone through the next few weeks of memorialization as to how the dust settles on that. >> peter, 15 seconds, do you think -- i'm sorry about this -- but do you think mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of these moments which seems very, very profound, five years ago we will have forgotten him 1234. >> talking about the brand of mandela is the emphasis on the u.s. has been so much on the forgiveness that we have forgotten that he only forgave once he had actually overcome an unjust system and that the struggle in south africa continues to create a more just society. just as it did in the united states after legal segregation was abolished but there were still massive economic inequities. my hope is mandela is not too domesticated and sanitized now in his death. >> thank you all three of you. the two peters, a wonderful p
what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. there's still more than 60% of the vote is what they get. they're being challenged from both left and right. that's going to be very interesting once we've gone through the next few weeks of memorialization as to how the dust settles on that. >> peter, 15 seconds, do you think -- i'm sorry about this -- but do you think mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of these moments which seems very, very profound, five...
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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to what extent can they keep him, what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. they're still more than 60% of the vote is what they get, but they're being challenged from essentially both left and right. and that's going to be very interesting once we have gone through the next few weeks of memorialization and how the dust settles on that. >> 15 seconds, do you think that mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of those moments which seems very, very profound five years ago will have forgotening him? >> my fear, talking about the brand of mandela's legacy is that the west, the emphasis has been so much on his legacy, that once he forgive and had overcome an unjust system, and that the struggle continues to create a more just society, just as it did in the united states after legal segregation was aboll learned. my hope a s that mandela isn't too domesticated and sanitized now in his death. >> thank you all three of you. wonderful panel. up next, japan loves violent video games, just like america. but they have almost no gun violence. why? we'll explain o
to what extent can they keep him, what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. they're still more than 60% of the vote is what they get, but they're being challenged from essentially both left and right. and that's going to be very interesting once we have gone through the next few weeks of memorialization and how the dust settles on that. >> 15 seconds, do you think that mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of those moments which seems very, very profound...
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a terrorist group, from margaret thatcher considered the anc a terrorist group and nelson mandela a terrorist. and this is the '80s. there was a lot of resistance to the idea of the government should fall, much less that this die vestment should take place at all. >> this was in the context of the cold war. and one of the most insidious things that the apartheid south african government did was they couched their oppression in terms of the communist struggle, that essentially the anc was riddled through with communists and pro-cubans. when nelson mandela was freed and made this tour. when he got to miami, he was actually rejected by the local government in miami, two mayors of miami and miami dade would not receive mandela because he was perceived as being pro-castro. so there was this whole sort of cold war fight that was tied up in the south african struggle. and it was part of the reason that the reagan administration opposed the idea of sanctions and divestment from south africa. >> please stay with us. >>> coming up, we will look at the presidency of nelson mandela and how he m
a terrorist group, from margaret thatcher considered the anc a terrorist group and nelson mandela a terrorist. and this is the '80s. there was a lot of resistance to the idea of the government should fall, much less that this die vestment should take place at all. >> this was in the context of the cold war. and one of the most insidious things that the apartheid south african government did was they couched their oppression in terms of the communist struggle, that essentially the anc was...
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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it pushed the anc to armed struggle. >> i feel that it is useless for us to continue talking peace and non-violence against a government -- >> the anc was outlawed and in 1964 nelson mandela was sentenced to life in prison, convicted of attempting to over throw the government. he became a symbol of resistance. after 27 years he was released in 1990. and emerged as the face of the anti-apartheid movement. four months later he appeared before a standing room only crowd at the oakland coliseum. >> it is you, the people of oakland, the people of the bay area who have given me and my delegation strength and hope. >> free man nelson mandela stepped into negotiations to bring democracy to south africa. in 1993 honored with the noble peace prize. a year later nelson mandela became south africa's first black president. >> never, and never again should it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another. let freedom ring. >> nelson former south african president nelson mandela born in 1918 died today 2013. our coverage continues at 6:00 p.m. talking with local o
it pushed the anc to armed struggle. >> i feel that it is useless for us to continue talking peace and non-violence against a government -- >> the anc was outlawed and in 1964 nelson mandela was sentenced to life in prison, convicted of attempting to over throw the government. he became a symbol of resistance. after 27 years he was released in 1990. and emerged as the face of the anti-apartheid movement. four months later he appeared before a standing room only crowd at the oakland...
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the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists. it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they get hugely important things very wrong. our country from the president to the mr. president, every day citizens right now our country is mourning the loss of mandela, remembering the life he lived the way he changed the world. our country in the western world wasn't always this united in viewing mandela as a hero. a part tied, apartness in the africano language, they were voted into office in south africa in then 48. they set about passing a series of impressive laws of racial segregation. they western considered citizens. in 1960 when drarts went
the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists. it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they...
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. >> reporter: the anc was banned. he became an outlaw, but he refused to back down. arrested in 1962 mandela was charged with sabotage and with attempting to violently overthrow the government. he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. for decades the struggle for justice in south africa continued with the imprisoned nelson mandela as its symbol. at times he was forced to break rocks in the hot sun for hours at a time. the government offered mandela freedom if he would renounce violence. he refused. >> today marks the 25th year behind bars for nelson mandela. >> reporter: south africa became an international outcast, facing sanctions, boycotts, and growing political pressure. >> nelson mandela should be released to participate in the country's political process. ♪ >> reporter: rock concerts for the cause were broadcast around the world. ♪ hey, mandela >> the release of nelson mandela. >> reporter: in 1989 south africa's hardline president p.w.bota resigned, replaced by f.w. clark who slowly began to dismantle apartheid. the ban on the anc was lifted, and
. >> reporter: the anc was banned. he became an outlaw, but he refused to back down. arrested in 1962 mandela was charged with sabotage and with attempting to violently overthrow the government. he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. for decades the struggle for justice in south africa continued with the imprisoned nelson mandela as its symbol. at times he was forced to break rocks in the hot sun for hours at a time. the government offered mandela freedom if he would renounce...
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the policy of forgiveness reconsideration was always anc policy. so that it didn't take prison to do that. theory jet stream tried to plague down how badly it was treating the prisoners. this photograph was a staged event. >> you didn't know this was taken. >> no, we didn't know this was taken. >> the government was trying to make him think he was only doing light work, the prisoners had wondered why for one day only the laboring became easy, but it was to get tougher later, the laboring moved to what was an open lime quarry, 13 years of hard toll breaking rock, the dazzling reflection of white stone, damaging their eyesight. when they weren't laboring, they were sometimes allowed visits in this gloomy building, his second wife an activist herself came under a travel babb, one stage mandela waited two years between her visits. >> by regulation, there was a minimum of six months between each visit, and also by regulation, there was no contact. a screen between husband and wife, winny would sit on this side, the communication through a speaker. a max
the policy of forgiveness reconsideration was always anc policy. so that it didn't take prison to do that. theory jet stream tried to plague down how badly it was treating the prisoners. this photograph was a staged event. >> you didn't know this was taken. >> no, we didn't know this was taken. >> the government was trying to make him think he was only doing light work, the prisoners had wondered why for one day only the laboring became easy, but it was to get tougher later,...
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tell me about that first meeting. >> we met in zambia where anc were meeting. my colleague who passed away a couple months ago was leading the delegation. i got there, i've gone all over the country saying free mandela, free south africa, never met nelson mandela. ipo in this line, suddenly, there he am. then mr. mandela i'd like you to meet the congressman from california. he does this double take and hit me with a moment i will never forget. we have heard much from you. you gave us hope. you kept us alive. he hugged me and i broke down and cried. >> congresswoman waters can you remember what he said? >> we had been working to break down apartheid, there when it was lifted anc was thought of as terrorist organization. i met others, on and on and on but i really wanted to meet nelson mandela, didn't get a chance to do it until he came to los angeles. as you know we organized another huge event to welcome him to this country. we filled up the coliseum, lit candles. all of the movie stars in hollywood showed up. all of the community showed up all over southern ca
tell me about that first meeting. >> we met in zambia where anc were meeting. my colleague who passed away a couple months ago was leading the delegation. i got there, i've gone all over the country saying free mandela, free south africa, never met nelson mandela. ipo in this line, suddenly, there he am. then mr. mandela i'd like you to meet the congressman from california. he does this double take and hit me with a moment i will never forget. we have heard much from you. you gave us...
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i wanted to also say that in my work in the entire apartheid movement, i got to meet anc leaders and leaders that spear the nation, the armed wing of the amc, chris honey was one of my heroes, a leader that was assassinated about 20 years ago and in many cases i was really fortunate to be in key places with our san francisco bay area antiapartheid movement. as a student activist, i was able to meet so many other students that were working on central america solidarity and other issues, and we looked up what happened in the u.s. with what was going on in south africa. the amazing transformation of my life by the struggle of mandela and others as well. also artists were the key place where i learned so much about south africa. and nelson mandela died in johannesburg, but i remember just playing the hell out of [speaker not understood] johannesburg and see him on saturday night live in 1975 when i was 13 years old, my daughter's age, and just being amazed by what artists can do to support justice and to support movements. i also wanted to say i ended up joining asian american artists ag
i wanted to also say that in my work in the entire apartheid movement, i got to meet anc leaders and leaders that spear the nation, the armed wing of the amc, chris honey was one of my heroes, a leader that was assassinated about 20 years ago and in many cases i was really fortunate to be in key places with our san francisco bay area antiapartheid movement. as a student activist, i was able to meet so many other students that were working on central america solidarity and other issues, and we...
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the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid has been nonviolent organizing. they decided maybe that wasn't enough and nelson mandella was one of the leaders who went underground to help start it. they would try to sabotage the state. they banned the amc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandella was arrested for treason in 1961. in 1962, he was convicted of traveling illegally. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison, they put him on trial again, this time for sabotage. they convicted him and sentenced him to life on robin island. he began a new sentence that was a life sentence. and for the first 18 years of it, his cell had no bed, no plumbing of ne kind. he was permitted one visitor per year for 30 minutes. he became a symbol, worldwide, of the fight to stop apartheid. the south african government would not allow a picture of him to be taken in prison for decades. so the image was always him when he had been locked away. he served 27 years in prison. when fw clerk was elected president in 1989, it
the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid has been nonviolent organizing. they decided maybe that wasn't enough and nelson mandella was one of the leaders who went underground to help start it. they would try to sabotage the state. they banned the amc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandella was arrested for treason in 1961. in 1962, he was convicted of traveling illegally. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison,...
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at one point the anc made decisions to try and take away all the symbols of the springboks. he knew this was wrong, the whites would think they weren't wanted in south africa. and he got the anc to change its mind and he turned the springboks into a team which supported by whites and blacks alike. it became a truly national team. this was his way or a small example, if you like, of how to unify our nations. he had a sense of purpose. and i only wish we had three or four mandela's scattered around the world now and then we'd never feel the problems that bedevil us all. >> yeah, indeed, absolutely. prime minister frazier, thank you so much for sharing your memories and your time you spent with nelson mandela. we appreciate it very much. thank you, sir. >> it's wonderful to hear all these stories, all these recollections of these private meetings. >> what people say about mandela is he knew the value of something which is called a teachable moment. something we have heard about of late. he knew the value of wearing that springboks jersey at the world couple. he knew the power o
at one point the anc made decisions to try and take away all the symbols of the springboks. he knew this was wrong, the whites would think they weren't wanted in south africa. and he got the anc to change its mind and he turned the springboks into a team which supported by whites and blacks alike. it became a truly national team. this was his way or a small example, if you like, of how to unify our nations. he had a sense of purpose. and i only wish we had three or four mandela's scattered...
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mandela was founder of anc, african national congress, others south african national union. i was used to those men and a few women shouting and screaming at each other. they were really arch rivals. when mr. mandela came, he didn't raise his voice. he didn't argue with anybody. he didn't put anybody down. they were rivals. i had never met a south african who wasn't shouting and really angry all the time. i know he was angry, but he didn't use his energy foolishly. so it was a year after that he was imprisoned. i became friends with his wife then, winnie mandela. and we continued to support each other over the years and over the oceans. and she would tell me how he was. he wasn't vitt uperative with t guards. i was part of hillary clinton's delegates when he was inaugurated. i sat there and watched the guards, who had guarded him for 27 years, sitting in the right sights, in the best seats, invited by mr. mandela. not to say look how you treated me. i'm free now and i can ya ya ya at you, not that at all. in fact, he was gracious, welcome. he said, this is south africa. this
mandela was founder of anc, african national congress, others south african national union. i was used to those men and a few women shouting and screaming at each other. they were really arch rivals. when mr. mandela came, he didn't raise his voice. he didn't argue with anybody. he didn't put anybody down. they were rivals. i had never met a south african who wasn't shouting and really angry all the time. i know he was angry, but he didn't use his energy foolishly. so it was a year after that...
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war and didn't have that significant blood shed and didn't have the call for revenge and in the new anc there are members and some younger who still want that, they want to take property back from whites in country and some are worried with mandela being gone less of a moderation of views. >> that is why he is a controversial figure and represents the future of anc and you see streets on the stadium and their names are being changed and some people who had english names on the streets that live for years and years are seeing the change happen and for some it's unsettling. >> this is a celebration and seeing more sadness now than you had earlier but it's here and hearing cheering in the background and we will be out here and we will keep on talking to people and we will send you back there in a few minutes. >> thank you, appreciate it, thank you very much. let's talk about what ali raised and morgan raised which is talking about south africa moving forward and also looking back as well. and you wanted to take issue with this idea of a civil war, right, in your mind, proud south african,
war and didn't have that significant blood shed and didn't have the call for revenge and in the new anc there are members and some younger who still want that, they want to take property back from whites in country and some are worried with mandela being gone less of a moderation of views. >> that is why he is a controversial figure and represents the future of anc and you see streets on the stadium and their names are being changed and some people who had english names on the streets...
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he joined the congress in his country with the anc formed a resistance. he was charged with treason and life in prison. he was in one of the most remote and harsh african prisons. he was freed at 71. within a few yearsar par years apartheid ended. in 2010 south africa welcomed the first world cup. >>> a freeze warning still in effect across the bay area. this morning people bundled up. this video from the east bay, but it was like that much of the bay area. it will be a little warmer, by that we mean a little warmer. jacqueline, how is it looking now? >> reporter: very very cold, pam. there are already sub freezing temperatures. it is 28 in santa rosa. 30 in vallejo. over toward livermore 29. south bay is 30s. 36 in half moon bay. 35 in san mateo. it will only get colder. widespread frost. on your car wind shield, there could even be black ice. we will stay that way overnight. temperatures range between 24 and 32. clear skies now. the storm will move into the bay area. it will be dropping down. we could see snow locally. >>> in richmond an arrest has been
he joined the congress in his country with the anc formed a resistance. he was charged with treason and life in prison. he was in one of the most remote and harsh african prisons. he was freed at 71. within a few yearsar par years apartheid ended. in 2010 south africa welcomed the first world cup. >>> a freeze warning still in effect across the bay area. this morning people bundled up. this video from the east bay, but it was like that much of the bay area. it will be a little warmer,...
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and what was interesting is, of course, there were many factions within the anc. some of them who thought, no, this is our time. and no, not reconciliation, but it's our time. and he would have none of pit. and started an amazing process in the country. bringing people and communities together. and united what i think many of us were worried was an impossible situation to unite a country peacefully behind his leadership. >> there are so many instances both during his presidency and afterwards where he brought people together where he was able to forge compromise. and we've heard a lot about president obama from him and from others about how he has been inspired by nelson mandela. you can't get a more vivid contrast than between the way nelson mandela operated and much of what we see in congress these days. is there anything you see at all that might suggest that this will give people a moment to pause to think and to say maybe there are lessons here to be learned. maybe there are ways. i mean, this is a man who forgave his persecutors, people who jailed him, peopl
and what was interesting is, of course, there were many factions within the anc. some of them who thought, no, this is our time. and no, not reconciliation, but it's our time. and he would have none of pit. and started an amazing process in the country. bringing people and communities together. and united what i think many of us were worried was an impossible situation to unite a country peacefully behind his leadership. >> there are so many instances both during his presidency and...
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he embodied the anc's approach, their principles. but he wasn't the only one. during my time in south africa, especially in the late '80s, when apartheid still existed, i met any number of south african, leaders, rank and pile, who had been through terrible injustice. fellow graduates of robin island, for example. people who had been tortured or under banning orders. and almost to a person i heard similar words from them that we heard from nelson mandela after he was released from prison. and in many ways my love for south africa and my inspiration from south africans came from those years when mandela was still in prison, when we didn't even know what he looked like because there was only one old picture. he was the leader. he was the "avatar" of the movement. but there's much, much more, and he was standing on a firm base, firm foundation. >> you know, it's been surprising, mark, you know, on the one handle, this effort to sanitize mandela that we're seeing now, you know, i'm trying to make this kind of play around king, and yet also -- and this is maybe even
he embodied the anc's approach, their principles. but he wasn't the only one. during my time in south africa, especially in the late '80s, when apartheid still existed, i met any number of south african, leaders, rank and pile, who had been through terrible injustice. fellow graduates of robin island, for example. people who had been tortured or under banning orders. and almost to a person i heard similar words from them that we heard from nelson mandela after he was released from prison. and...
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it is not that nelson mandela and the anc believed in violence. it is a people against whom the government was waging war took the action of self-defense. that's an internationally recognized strategy -- >> they took responsibility for violent acts. maybe we should put it that way. >> that's not what you said initially and it's really dangerous to keep perpetuating this articulation. nobody ever declared de clerk a terrorist. that's not what happened. what they did was to label the response to the violence. and that is dangerous because it's arguing and it's saying that mandela who by the way never renounced violence -- in the 27 years he was in jail, they said to him, renounce violence and we will free you and he said, i will not because that manifesto said, we have two choices, submit or die. and they said, we will never submit. >> we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, minimum wage workers in more than 100 cities protested and demanded a livable salary. but is raising pay the best way to really combat poverty in this country? the
it is not that nelson mandela and the anc believed in violence. it is a people against whom the government was waging war took the action of self-defense. that's an internationally recognized strategy -- >> they took responsibility for violent acts. maybe we should put it that way. >> that's not what you said initially and it's really dangerous to keep perpetuating this articulation. nobody ever declared de clerk a terrorist. that's not what happened. what they did was to label the...
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with him no longer as the spiritual leader of the anc. at least no longer on this earth. what is that going to do to politics going forward? >> when he walked away and said don't call me, i'll call you, he left politics. so for a number of years now, he has not been on the scene. i think to a certain extent, that's unfortunate. i think that this young democracy is having some missteps. >> it does feel that way. >> a few stumbles. it's difficult because mandela has not been there to way in. maybe at this moment when people are not on the streets, but contemplating what mandela stood for, they might come to a better moment than they are in currently. >> put into perspective, that was an amazing three or four-year period in history. when you look back, it's stunning and like how did we lose the momentum? we were almost there. >> it takes -- you did have prague and the berlin wall and the leaders who were able to have a vision. bush 41 had a vision in terms of german reunionification. there were leaders in different parts of the world. >> who seize the moment. >>a i new econo
with him no longer as the spiritual leader of the anc. at least no longer on this earth. what is that going to do to politics going forward? >> when he walked away and said don't call me, i'll call you, he left politics. so for a number of years now, he has not been on the scene. i think to a certain extent, that's unfortunate. i think that this young democracy is having some missteps. >> it does feel that way. >> a few stumbles. it's difficult because mandela has not been...